Character Sheet Name: Raveneye1991 Weapons: What do you need them to be? Items: Anything you want!
Subject: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:52 pm
For those of you who don't play DF that often anymore, here's what happened. A few days ago, when Admin was suppose to be working on fixing some minor bugs and preparing the Boss Loot/OA system for 3D, he instead released an update that changed the entire loot system with no head's up what-so-ever. Now, instead of looking through everything on the screen, you look for glowing gold objects with question marks, and that's all you can loot. Unfortunately, the loot rates are still the same for eveything, so you're pretty much fight off aggro, loot a body, and end up with tinned salmon. Compared to picking and chosing what to loot, it's more or less "take this or shut up and GTFO!" And better yet, to calm the GMs who have been screwed the worse by this update, he released the Christmas stuff early: a discount on all credit shop stuff, randomly picked based on how much you pay. 900 credits for a VSS or USAN-level gear, or 200 credits for a Dragonov or exteminator mesh-level gear. Now with these cheap influx, I believe he's trying to avoid fixing things and calm the GMs who want him hanged for this change. Also, Grenades were suppose to create a new explosion, but instead fire blanks now, which pissed everyone off who uses them, especially the XM25 users. I hate this update, and I know Animal Mother does to.
In Summary, RAGERAGERAGEKILLADMINKILLADMINKILLADMINRAH!
W. Birkin Veteran
Gender : Number of posts : 490 Age : 38
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:16 pm
Yea, kill the one person who can fix what he's fucked up. Genius idea.
What's with the big white box and why is it pissing me off?
Ok I have one very important thing to ask.
The new looting system in question, does it offer you a guaranteed item of random value, or is it still a high risk of not getting an item at all? In either case, I still don't think this is much of a problem.
Think about it: One of the biggest time consumers in the game is looting as many objects as you possibly can. If you loot buildings, especially the bigger ones, you're going to get maybe, 2 to 4 lootable objects per room and 1 to 3 per hallway. Some of these buildings can get up to 15+ floors, and given it takes about 7 to 10 seconds to loot an object, not to mention the time it takes to walk/run to and through the building. Needless to say, its a lot of fucking time spent... and for what? 80% of the time you get jack shit, and the rest you get items that aren't worth it. At least if its one lootable object per room, you don't spend as much time huffing and puffing about the area, moving from corpse to corpse.
Trig Failed Experiment
Gender : Number of posts : 14 Age : 98
Character Sheet Name: Weapons: None Items: Nothing
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:37 pm
Admin says these golden question marks are supposed to give more reliable loot, negating the drawback of only having a few things to loot in each screen. If the drop rates are still the same, then it's a bug, and will be fix'd shortly.
Holster your six-shooter cowboy, and let Pwn sort things out just a bit before you start looking for the lynchin' rope.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:19 pm
I find zero problem with this.
Raveneye1991 Survivor
Gender : Number of posts : 37 Age : 33
Character Sheet Name: Raveneye1991 Weapons: What do you need them to be? Items: Anything you want!
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:24 pm
Trigger wrote:
Admin says these golden question marks are supposed to give more reliable loot, negating the drawback of only having a few things to loot in each screen. If the drop rates are still the same, then it's a bug, and will be fix'd shortly. Holster your six-shooter cowboy, and let Pwn sort things out just a bit before you start looking for the lynchin' rope.
It's more reliable, but gives out the lv. 30 crap in Death Row. Really? If he fixes this, then I'll be fine because the new zeds will kill off the perfect speed nubs that dart in and run from aggro, thus making it even again. That and the whole Midas gold lootables, ?'s do just fine and are less insulting to intelligence. I wasn't saying to actually kill him, I was just venting my frustration with him catering to the nubs who can't loot anything and complain about it, when everyone else was doing just fine before the update.
W. Birkin Veteran
Gender : Number of posts : 490 Age : 38
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:49 am
Right, those of you who can actually -play- 3D, while us stuck on 2D still can't do shit.
To be honest, I never once survived long enough in DR to actually loot anything that made it worth my while. I was just as happy (and I use that phrase sparingly) looting a few Saigas in red/fat red territory. The only difference I saw was that I could actually -survive-. So I don't know your pain atm.
Animal Mother Survivor
Gender : Number of posts : 34 Age : 39
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:20 pm
first off, the new system decreases the amount of searchable things to about 5% of the previous amount. these searchables now give you a much higher chance of finding something, with a GM account i'd say you get something about 80-90% of the time, not had as much game time with a standard account, but i'd say about 75% of the time there.
i'm guessing you all know how numbers work, so realise that for a GM account with a looting bonus, that bonus gets much smaller when you drastically reduce the amount of things its possible to search. and they have been drastically reduced.
previously, you could afford to be very picky with a GM account. it was a case of 'oh well, thats the second tinned veggies i'v seen this square, i'l keep looking til i find something better then move on'.
now, you dont like what you find, tough cookies, cos you havent got a lot of chances to find other stuff. you will take your 9mm rifle rounds and your tinned vegetables and you will damn-well enjoy them you ungrateful little peasant.
looting ammo is a bit of a nuisance too, as you are hardly finding enough of it to get any full boxes on a trip. this is especially bad with standard accounts, if you can imagine finding ~80 rounds of something every 5 squares, or ~40 grenades a trip.
my main concern is the lack of choice as to where to loot. in aggro, it basically forces you to clear it to search those things laying in the middle of the road, then when you do clear and search, you find something you dont want to see, like 9mm rifle (still as cheap as low-level pistol ammo btw). more importantly, its actually quite damn boring knowing where you have to go to search to find something. now the game isnt so much about the journey as the destination, and quite frankly, it takes a lot of the fun out of it. its a lot like the dot to dot pictures you may have drawn when you were about 5. but with zombies. and tinned vegetables. and morphine (~$400 at an outpost near you).
as for the yellowness, with the new system you do need some sort of indicator to mark which 1 out of the 200 bodies laying around you can actually search, just a shame the method that was chosen is so offensive to the eyes.
death threats aside, i can tell you i wont be renewing my GM if it stays like this. mainly because of the new 'dot to dot' style of it. i just plain dont like being forced to search this instead of that or that or that, regardless what other cosmetic/loot table tweaks come in over the following weeks.
Buckaroo Banzai
Gender : Number of posts : 76 Age : 38
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:54 pm
See this is EXACTLY THE REASON I started source looting in the first place with DF2D.
Noone has said it yet, so I will.
Bottom line: Niel (AdminPwn) is fucking with the loot rates, because people stopped buying credits. He doesn't care about fixing the rates, he cares about re-valuing the market and making money. normalizing the market while keeping credit prices up makes it so that more people need to purchase credits instead of buying them off the market.
Raveneye1991 Survivor
Gender : Number of posts : 37 Age : 33
Character Sheet Name: Raveneye1991 Weapons: What do you need them to be? Items: Anything you want!
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:31 pm
No offense, but SCLing was illegal, and while I know Admin is trying to make money, the only problem I have is him screwing the looting system over. Everything else is fine, but when you screw with a vital part of the system, then it screws everything else up.
Buckaroo Banzai
Gender : Number of posts : 76 Age : 38
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:32 pm
Yeah. I'm still not sorry about that. If it's a known bug from two years ago, it is my civic duty to exploit it to the best of my ability.
And I just mentioned sourcing as an anecdote. Sourcing was prevalent ages before it became a 'problem'. You should ask me about the whole story some time.
So the loot rates are kicked down, that sucks. It means that people are going for presents instead of looting. the more presents get bought, the more credits get bought. Simple, sweet, and normalizes the marketplace, while at the same time, making Niel a fuckton of money.
Animal Mother Survivor
Gender : Number of posts : 34 Age : 39
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:22 pm
*raises hand* whats SCLing?
from what i've seen on the GM forums, people are certainly digging out their wallets and snapping up the creds again, so i'd imagine admins account is going to be firmly in the black come new year. wonder if he has any plans to spend some of it on the servers, say, sort the lag out a bit....
i'm also quite interested to see whats going on with the prices of top-tier weaponry come the end of the month, there has already been some pretty drastic price changes lower down- i bought a CT 3 weeks ago for $600k, now i could get one for half that, and a grinder will set you back about $350k less than before, with things like the VSS and K-50 going for $1m and less.
assuming players are looting less of these things post-update, i reckon the christmas gifts will keep prices down, and everyone distracted from the fact they arent earning as much in-game cash as they were before, so i guess it all evens out, at least for now.
W. Birkin Veteran
Gender : Number of posts : 490 Age : 38
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:28 pm
SCL'ing is short for "Source Looting", I believe.
Bucky, would you like to take over the explanation?
Raveneye1991 Survivor
Gender : Number of posts : 37 Age : 33
Character Sheet Name: Raveneye1991 Weapons: What do you need them to be? Items: Anything you want!
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:34 pm
SCL is "Source Code Looting". I don't know the exact details, but it's basically looting an endgame weapon at will. Admin perma-banned a TON of players he caught doing it with Pandora's Lement's help, though she had her original account was also Perma-banned. He also created safegaurds against it in 3D (inculuding a program that bans you almost immediately after trying it, which I've seen in action in MP) and removed endgame-loots from 2D alltogether.
Animal Mother Survivor
Gender : Number of posts : 34 Age : 39
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:06 am
ah right, so basically shenanigans with the temp data the game stores in your browser cache, or something along those lines. cant say i'l be trying it, i'm a believer that most things get a lot less fun when you start cheating (cue smiley with an angelic halo...)
i've seen a couple of people get kicked out of 3d with the message 'soandso was kicked for cheating' or something similar, wonder if thats what they were trying.
back on topic, i've decided there is no such thing as dedicated looting runs in 3d now. its more like, 'i'm going out to kill a ton of zeds and occasionally search something'.
working well for me so far, but its pretty much stopped me looting with Giggles (GM) now as its just too frustrating when the only thing i care about with that account, is looting teh stuffs.
mother is rapidly approaching level 50 now tho, and is truly born again hard. time to start looking for a SIC 550 with +8 on critical, as i will be needing one in a few levels
Buckaroo Banzai
Gender : Number of posts : 76 Age : 38
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:52 pm
Raveneye1991 wrote:
SCL is "Source Code Looting". I don't know the exact details, but it's basically looting an endgame weapon at will. Admin perma-banned a TON of players he caught doing it with Pandora's Lement's help, though she had her original account was also Perma-banned. He also created safegaurds against it in 3D (inculuding a program that bans you almost immediately after trying it, which I've seen in action in MP) and removed endgame-loots from 2D alltogether.
.... no.
Ok kids, you're obviously a little confused, and possibly a little bit frightened about it. Sorry Raveneye, i'm about to tear your little response to hell.
First, it does not increase your chances of looting an end game weapon. it merely 'shows' you what you will loot in a room, and if a boss (GLA, Big Red) will spawn. Trust me, I'd know. There is a reason my name was up there with Da Gamer on the witch hunt wall of shame. Pandora's Lament, otherwise known as lolita the sleazy little manwhore, was banned for sourcing, and came crawling back with names. My name among them, so I am righteously angry about it.
The insta-ban is based around a page called 'getvalues.php', accessible on the DF server. it is how I wrote my loot checking program (see the 'trust me, i'd know' part.) and it worked off of reading hardcoded values generated when the page loads. In 3d, loot is generated when you begin searching a location, not when you load the screen, making the loot checking trick ineffective anyway.
Disclaimer: I am a bad man. You should not use me as an example. Ever.
tl;dr: Uncle Buck touched Niel in his special area, so he got banned.
Raveneye1991 Survivor
Gender : Number of posts : 37 Age : 33
Character Sheet Name: Raveneye1991 Weapons: What do you need them to be? Items: Anything you want!
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:24 pm
It's fine, I didn't know about all the details, just what was found using it.
Buckaroo Banzai
Gender : Number of posts : 76 Age : 38
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:36 pm
But that's just it. It didn't increase your chances of finding stuff. it just sped up your looting. The argument that you looted more good stuff while sourcing is false. gamer 'was' doing something, and it involved the game timer. That's different, and he never told anyone what it really was. (I suppose if I asked him now, he'd tell me, but meh, that's fixed too.)
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:15 pm
Not entirely clear, did you mean that you'd be permabanned for visiting the getvalues page now?
Buckaroo Banzai
Gender : Number of posts : 76 Age : 38
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:21 am
Loot rates are back! Neros fall from the sky, and grinders uhh, grind, underfoot!
The curse of the christmas presents has been lifted!
Raveneye1991 Survivor
Gender : Number of posts : 37 Age : 33
Character Sheet Name: Raveneye1991 Weapons: What do you need them to be? Items: Anything you want!
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:00 pm
PRAISE THE LORD! CAN I GET A AMEN BROTHERS?! (ahem) I'm going looting if this is the case on my main, need some more nade money and if I find something really good I'm buying a CT after it sells.
Animal Mother Survivor
Gender : Number of posts : 34 Age : 39
Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN! Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:19 am
i have come to the realisation that the new loot update is a marvellous and wonderful thing.
GL with the looting Raven, happy hunting out there
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Subject: Re: READ ALL ABOUT IT! DF LOOT SCREWED BY ADMINPWN!